Interesting Discussion

[handful_ofdust]

...going on over here (http://samsykes.com/2011/01/the-chosen-jerk-jam-session-with-n-k-jemisin/). I guess I’ll just never be comfortable with the idea that we should proactively shit on a particular type of narrative trope because it’s inherently evil, and thus the people who like it (who are obviously too effin’ dumb to figure that out) are bad and should feel bad, anymore than I like any other type of received wisdom. Thankfully, though, I also don’t think I’ve been guilty of this; most of my characters are anti-heroes at best who don't think of themselves as automatically qualified to “save” much of much, plus the fact that there’s an overall lack of authority figures of any sort in my world(s) who aren’t assholes, on some level.

I mean, “[Anasazi]” is sort of a Chosen One story turned inside out--ie, this slot could have been filled by anyone, it became yours through horrible bad luck, and now everything you know and love will be destroyed because of it/you. But then again, I do write horror, so perhaps for me, the relevant trope is “Chosen Monster” instead.;)

Comments

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

My off the cuff reaction: Oh Lord, how people are defining "reimaginings" these days. It's like, yes, your epic fantasy is so different because your hero is a redhead. Sorry; sometimes I get frustrated by claims that something radical and different is being done when really the results are the same.

I think I've said this before, but one of the reasons I identify more with horror than with fantasy is because there's less trope exaltation/trope angst, I feel. MCs can die, or not. Monsters can be killed, or not.

[handful-ofdust.livejournal.com]

I'm with you in finding horror more interesting/realistic, obviously, but also in terms of being equally tired of the "trope angst". It's a lot like the million and a half posts that blew up about Cameron's Avatar being A) Pocahontas in blueface and B) EEEEEEEEVIL WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU, WHITEY, THAT YOU KEEP TELLING THIS EEEEEVIL STORY?!?, for me: Even just considering that an amazing amount of fantasy is either written by Christians or comes out of a Christian cultural context, you're seriously surprised by the plurality of Special Person With Inborn Superpowers Saves The World stories? C'mon. Do something new, yes--feel free, please.Expect something new, demand it, support it. Just don't act like you're doing something ultra Brave and New by calling out a cliche for being a cliche.

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Yeah, pretty much.

I had heard so many of those complaints by the time I saw Avatar that I didn't even care anymore (not that I liked Avatar; as far as I was concerned the Navi and the Americans could all go down a black hole and leave the Super Cool Sentient Planet to the Super Cool Animals). And you know, part of it is this feeling I get that Avatar, etc., are just easy targets - where the hell is all the outrage for things that are still on the "approved" list, but equally problematic? I was just complaining to my mother last night that among the LJ community of progressive/enlightened 20-year-olds, there is still universal cheer for Law & Order: SVU. I think this applies to books as well - everyone points at LOTR and Narnia as "ooh! trope-ridden! shame! shame!" but I almost want to shake fantasy readers and say "come on! you think this isn't in your favorite escapist books?"

I feel like horror doesn't have this problem, and I don't know if that's because we don't want escapism or our escapism is very very strange or what. For sure, there are problems in the genre; maybe I'm just lucky to have fallen in with the right crowd.

[moon-custafer.livejournal.com]

This is just off the top of my head, but I wonder if some books/writers get a reputation as the Thing to Dump on to demonstrate your own purity. Sort of like being the school nerd/slut/community scapegoat/etc.

[intertribal.livejournal.com]

Oh yes. I think the litmus test of this is to post an excerpt/summary of a book by an SF Scapegoat, without proper names or author names, and see if the response is the same.

[kmarkhoover.livejournal.com]

I totally agree. *nods*

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think this is something, for sure.

[leahbobet.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah. There's a lot of what we do on the Internet (and, well, in life) that's not really about the thing itself, but about resorting our own personal social hierarchies.

[moon-custafer.livejournal.com]

I think there’s also an inverse of that, in which a reviewer reacts as though a particular trope has never been used before – like a few years back when apparently some conservative types got all up in arms about Happy Feet being omggaypropaganda because the plot could be boiled down to “bullied outsider saves his community, who then decide that being Different is OK after all” and everyone else just looked on in astonishment and wondered if said conservatives had ever watched *any other children’s movies at all.*

[handful-ofdust.livejournal.com]

...um, yes.;)

Seriously? This guy never read "The Ugly Duckling", or anything? Man.

[moon-custafer.livejournal.com]

IIRC correctly, the person analyzing this response finally went “oh – I get it – you were one of the ones bullying the weird kids, that’s why you don’t like stories where that turns out to have been the wrong thing to do…”

Also, while it’s a strawman kind of example, I can never get over Wertham’s insistence that the motif of “injury to the eye” is found *nowhere* except for those evil sleazy comic books….